Saturday, October 21, 2006

Where's the logo?

I can't help but notice that UND's "hostile and abusive" logo seems to be a little harder to find these days. Have you been in the new Wellness Center yet? There isn't a logo to be seen. That's right...while The Ralph is plastered with thousands of logos, UND's newest building doesn't appear to have even one logo. I thought that was very interesting.

Another noticeable absence...the Fighting Sioux Sports Network. The joint venture between UND and WDAZ has seemingly ditched artist Bennet Brien's logo for a much less "controversial" one.

Here's the old logo...
And here's the new logo...

I wonder if we will continue to see a decline in the logo's use by the University and by other entities? I'm thinking that if UND wins the lawsuit against the NCAA (I know...probably unlikely), there might be some sense of vindication there and we might see a little bit more of the logo than what we've become accustomed to. Who knows...

28 comments:

Whistler said...

GF Guy? Have we seen the athletic department logo used to represent the University as a whole before?

On the other hand they seem to be rolling the "Force of the North" out a bit more. I think it's a good idea to have some kind of fallback team name in case we do wind up losing the lawsuit.

I don't see the two, Fighting Sioux and Force of the North being non-complimentary.

Anonymous said...

The Director of the Wellness Center made a conscious decision to exclude the logo from the new building, including the shop inside that sells some athletic wear, to welcome all members of the UND community. Such a decision has the added benefit of avoiding spending millions of dollars to remove the logo once the state loses the lawsuit. (Please note that it is the State of North Dakota, not the University, suing the NCAA.) Perhaps the Director of the Wellness Center was the only one thinking of saving the University money, while the Alumni Foundation poors hundreds of thousands of dollars that could be used on education down the drain with a divisive and ultimately fruitless lawsuit.

BTW - I cannot agree that the UND logo is hard to find; I find it hard to avoid. I welcome the shop at the Wellness Center as a place for those offended by the logo to purchase UND paraphenalia to support the University, the community, and the athletes. The two are hardly mutually exclusive.

David M. said...

Perhaps the Director of the Wellness Center was the only one thinking of saving the University money, while the Alumni Foundation poors hundreds of thousands of dollars that could be used on education down the drain with a divisive and ultimately fruitless lawsuit.

Obviously you don't understand... that money used for the lawsuit comes from donors who WANT their money used in that manner. The Alumni Foundation is simply the organization acquiring the funds and making them available for the lawsuit. Alumni can spend their money anyway they see fit. But obviously in your world they can not. You think you can spend someone else's money better than they can.

GrandForksGuy said...

Actually, I think it was fairly wise for the Wellness Center people to not plaster the building with logos. It makes sense to consider the fact that the logo could end up changing in the future and that change would be very expensive if all UND buildings had as many logos as the Ralph. Still, I don't see how it would have hurt to have had a handful of logos in the Wellness Center.

David M. said...

One thing that seems to be looked over rather constantly is the fact that the logo is primarily for the athletic side of the university. The Wellness Center is not exactly an athletic building. It's much like the Student Union, it's there for all students. So for there not to be any logos is not that big of deal. The Ralph on the other hand... the logo is the athletic brand, it NEEDS to be there.

Brooks said...

I don't see what the problem is with showing the logo on the fighting sioux sports network. The fight is against the nickname, isn't it? How is it better to just have the nickname vs. a noble picture?

It would have been nice in the wellness center to at least see the UND logo with the flame in it. I know whenever I see it, it gives me a sense of community. But I guess us students are just paying for the wellness center, we shouldn't have any say in how it looks.

Anonymous said...

To anonymous stating "while the Alumni Foundation poors hundreds of thousands of dollars that could be used on education down the drain with a divisive and ultimately fruitless lawsuit":

you need to be aware that slightly over half of the $100,000 raised is not even from UND alumni or from ND residents, but from citizens throughout this country that are outraged at the PC movement and the infringement of liberty in this country. Furthermore, law firms that have expertise in antitrust issues that have nothing to do with UND have volunteered their services to help ND with this issue. Any one with any knowledge of the NCAA's actions and any concern about fairness would clearly admit that double standards have been applied to UND relative to a school like Central Michigan.

Nate said...

GF Guy -
How many logos are there in Abbott Hall? O'Kelly? Harrington? The Memorial Union?

As stated by others above, the Fighting Sioux logo (and name) is used by the athletic department, not the University as a whole. That's why there are no logos in the new student wellness center.

Anonymous said...

UND is represented by the atorney general of North Dakota, who I believe is paid by the taxpayers.

GrandForksGuy said...

Nate, I agree that there is some validity in that argument. Still, most of the buildings you mentioned are specifically educational. On the other hand, I think many people would consider the Wellness Center to be at least partially tied to the athletic program at UND.

JGS said...

I'm actually starting to like the new FSSN logo. Gives it more of a "Sports Network" look to it.

GrandForksGuy said...

I actually agree that the new FSSN logo is a little more professional looking than the old one. Still, it's interesting that the UND logo wasn't worked into the new design at all.

nate said...

GF Guy, those people that consider the wellness center even partially tied to the athletic department are simply misinformed. Check out Fightingsioux.com and tell me if you see any mention of, or link to, the Student Wellness Center (other than recsports). Also, for the final word on this topic, check out http://www.universityrelations.und.edu/resources/graphicstandards.html

ec99 said...

"you need to be aware that slightly over half of the $100,000 raised is not even from UND alumni or from ND residents, but from citizens throughout this country that are outraged at the PC movement and the infringement of liberty in this country."

Whatever one's opinion about the NCAA might be, the Alumni Association is not limited to using money donated specifically for the suit. It has millions in unencumbered funds to contribute; funds that could have gone to academics.

tomteboda said...

Nate warmed my heart to my toes when he named Abbott Hall first.

Seriously, though, I live in a family divide in this one. My dad, and sister are both alumni, and my father & I think the whole logo thing is just a waste of money, while my sister is threatening to withdraw alumni supporort if the logo changes. You do not want to see what happens when we get together to watch a game these days....

I'm not sure if too much can be read into the FS/SN logo change, because sports tv logos change fairly regularly and they've been using that profile image for awhile now. As with the other comments, academics are not allowed to use the sports logo, and neither is residential life/student services. The Wellness Center, being separate from athletics, clearly had no right to using the logo. However, the decision not to sell logo-ized clothing probably is telling.

ec99 said...

"academics are not allowed to use the sports logo"

Where is this prohibition codified?

Coffee Guy said...

I think the new FS/SN logo looks pretty bad...sort of Win 3.1ish. OK, Win 95ish at most, sort of like that dumb spinning "e-mail" button that everybody used years ago.

I just doesn't look very professional. Actually, looking at it again, it looks like it could be a logo for a local "camcorder news" tv station, rather than the sports logo for a national (Div 1?) university.

Nate said...

ec99 -
Once again:
http://www.universityrelations.und.edu/resources/graphicstandards.html

take a look at the comment I posted above...you'll see under the heading 'Appropriate Situations in which to use UND Athletic Logos,' "The University's athletic logos are intended to be used only for purposes and situations concerning UND athletics. The athletic logos are not to be used by UND departments for general public information and marketing purposes

ec99 said...

""The University's athletic logos are intended to be used only for purposes and situations concerning UND athletics.""

Strange, then, that they are allowed on sweatshirts, ash trays, glasses, and a whole host of other stuff not associated with athletics.

nate said...

ec99-

Aren't the UND seal and UND flame logo also used on sweatshirts, glasses, ash trays, etc.? What does this stuff have to do with academics or research?

I think we both know that these products bearing the UND and Fighting Sioux logos are used for commercial purposes and to promote the athletic programs and the University in general. Your argument is shallow and not very well thought out.

Also, in response to your previous comment regarding the Alumni funds for the lawsuit - if I were to donate money to the foundation with the stipulation that it go to a specific program, I would expect that the Alumni Foundation use my donation for that program, not something else that they think is more worthwhile. I wouldn't expect that they would know how to use my donation better than I would, and if I did think they knew better, I would give them that option when donating.

People that donate their money to go toward athletics (or any program, for that matter) have every right to do so. Don't presume to think you know how to spend their money better than they do.

ec99 said...

"People that donate their money to go toward athletics (or any program, for that matter) have every right to do so."

I never said they didn't. I was speaking about unencumbered funds, if you read my post.

Anonymous said...

Ralph purposely put those logos all over the Ralph so they'd have to keep the name, and if they don't, the ralph will be torn down. It's in his will.

If they win the lawsuit, I'm suing the Vikings, Fighting Irish, Patriots, etc.

Anonymous said...

The will thing...myth.

Anonymous said...

I think UND needs to reimagine its use of the logo(s) in general. I prefer keeping the existing Native Profile, but the way it's used is very amateurish. There's a clear difference between the style in which most Division I and Division II represent themselves.

I understand the FightingSioux.com web site is being redesigned and will be unveiled between now and the end of the year. Keep your fingers crossed.

Anonymous said...

Actually the thing about the will is true, you obviously don't know what you're talking about I've SEEN IT. There's actually money set aside to tear it down, believe it or not. Why do you think they took so much time of throwing the logo all over the arena? Even the pro arenas don't have that many logos showing.

GrandForksGuy said...

How would you have seen Ralph's will? That doesn't make much sense unless you are a close family member or the lawyer(s) who worked on the will.

JGS said...

I bet you haven't seen it.

Nate said...

Actually the thing about the will is true, you obviously don't know what you're talking about I've SEEN IT.

BULL...oney