Sunday, September 28, 2008

Open Thread #96

Off-topic ramblings go here.

77 comments:

river man said...

Sorry I added a post that was off topic on the last thread, but the last open thread was full. I'm reposting it here, and I think its an important concern. I foreworn you its a little long, but please read. I want to raise awareness for the need to help and partner with our Native friends in our state. Is anybody concerned or care about the quality of life of our state's Native tribes? Does anybody care about the lives of Native Americans in our cities and on the reservations? Does anybody care whether they are living in poor conditions or good conditions? Are Native Americans living just as good as the residents of Grand Forks, Fargo, Bismarck, Minot and other cities in the state? I'll admit, I don't know how our Native friends are doing. My guess is most Natives in our cities and reservations are suffering and that they don't live as well as the rest of the population of North Dakota. Now I know some Natives, and their families have a good or great life, but I think most of them live in mediocre or poor conditions. I could be wrong, though. Sure, most of Native problems should be handled by the tribal governments and they do, they need our help. They also live in our state and they do ask for help with there problems and we do help them. With the Natives permission, I believe we can and need to partner with them and help them out more. We need to help them raise their quality of life and help restore their strength, character, pride and confidence as Native people. Help the Lakota, Dakota, Nakota, Chippewa, Arrikara or Mandan be who they are, Natives, and share the states wealth with them. I'm not talking about leaving them in the 1600's, 1700's, 1800's or 1900's, but helping them live in the 21st centrury while preserving their history, heritage and culture. And I'm not talking about taking away any of their lands. Actually, I think we should expand their reservations or give back some of their land. Yes, we already have helped them a lot, but we need to do more. After all, North Dakota is their land too. They also are fellow residents, neighbors, and friends. Sorry this so long and if deviated from the topic. What are your thoughts?

GrandForksGuy said...

Thanks for taking the time to repost your comments here. I need to do a better job of trying to see to it that off-topic comments are generally reserved for open threads...after all, that is one of the purposes of open threads.

GrandForksGuy said...

Is it just me or are the stores TRULY getting out the Christmas decorations earlier this year than any year before? I know we say this every year, but I was at Kmart tonight and they have relegated Halloween to the garden center...the seasonal area is already filled with decorated Christmas trees, lights, candles, and decorations. I have to admit that I really don't mind seeing this stuff so early...I'm a Christmas fanatic. Still, decorated Christmas trees at Kmart in late September? I can see selling things like Christmas lights and cards this early...but decorated Christmas trees three months before Christmas? Wow.

Anonymous said...

This was featured in Glamour a couple of months ago, kinda hit home for me.
http://www.glamour.com/magazine/2008/07/global-diary
It's not because I am native, just because I have had enough friends who have had the same experiences. It's very common for rape to happen on the rez and people just turn a blind eye or say nothing because they are afraid to press charges for fear of a) stirring up drama and being ridiculed by the people who should be helping and b) nothing ever happens if they do. I went to Devils Lake for my first few years of college and a friend of mine was raped by her son's father who broke into her apartment. She only told me because she was afraid he would either kill her or do it again and couldn't anyway because she had decided to move off the reservation to get away from him and get a better education for her son and was there for 'dis-owned' by her family and friend for turning her back on her culture. It was sad too because I left to get away from the drama of DL (drugs are every where and they can be very scary if you don't do em) I got her number and tried to call her after I left but it was disconnected. I still wonder if she is a sweet as she used to be and if she's doing alright, sad thing is I will never know.

Anonymous said...

Yes, the stores are bringing it out earlier and earlier. We went to Menards 10 days ago trying to buy some landscaping stuff and they had put it away because they were setting up their Christmas trees and needed the space!!! September 20!?!?! Unbelievable.

Anonymous said...

It was nice to Arnold Palmer come to GF to check on 'his' golf course, but I recently heard that we paid him $40,000 to do so [a bargain rate as he usually charges $200,000]. Is this true? If so, was it worth it? Is this a good use of our [Park Board] tax dollars? From the media it appeared that it was standard for him to come to check things out and there was no mention [that I saw] that we paid to $$$ to get him here. I'd like to hear the thoughts of others on this issue.

Anonymous said...

This city sure knows how to waste money. Wouldn't suprise me if they paid the man to come visit. While we are at it lets spend some more on Christmas lights and park benches on the greenway.

Anonymous said...

Anyone know where to get a good hotdog in town?

Anonymous said...

Walmart

Anonymous said...

I would like to formally apologize to the box of rocks that I compared Nancy Pelosi to.

I'm sorry.

Is it any wonder why Congress' approval rating is around 12% and probably about to go even lower?

The Whistler said...

Does anyone know why they are putting pavement between the lanes on I-29 by KOA and near Thompson?

I saw that and can't figure it out.

Anonymous said...

They usually put pavement between the lanes so that they can re-route traffic. You will see that there will two-way traffic on either the north or south bound lane.That is where you will cross the median to get on the other side. Did that make sense?

Anonymous said...

Yes, there is no doubt they paid A. Palmer to come here. I heard that it was 20,000. I have no idea if it is true. I found it hard to believe though...

The Whistler said...

No, this doesn't look like that at all. When they do that you can figure out how the traffic's going to go.

And they do a temporary job. This is Concrete and when you look at the Thompson site they are doing full ground preparation as if this is a permanent thing.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

It looks like no one wants to comment on anything Native American besides you and I riverman. My comments were not made to stereo-type any one, these were just the facts of my/her life and there are other very different very valid facts of others lives as well. Maybe people around here are afraid to tackle such an issue retaining the fear they may make someone 'feel bad' or be ridiculed for their beliefs. It's a hard one to touch without skirting the lines of racial tension. The road to hell was paved with good intentions? Is it anyone's place the do anything or do you have guilt in some way because our great-great-grandparents put them their? Why don't people be honest about this issue with out fear? I agree that we should expand the reservations and do what we can but at what means? Meaning we would have to have a say in how our help is being used right? I have a question, if there are so many people in the world who would pay 10's of thousands of dollars to be smuggled into America every single day just to serve you a plate of Kung Pao Chicken or harvest your beets, then why don't we make some agreements between the Natives of this land and we could work together to make each others world a better place and create a climate where we can freely give to each other?
Why?
Because no one wants to talk about it.....and that is the only way it would start.

Anonymous said...

I'd like to make a comment on the american indians. I think they are a great and noble people. With that said, go back 150 years. 150 years ago, my ancestors (white)were farmers, ranchers, blacksmiths etc. etc. The important things to my ancestors were not the same as to the american indians. Go to a reservation and look for yourself. You have to remember, it hasnt been all that long since the native americans lived on the plains and hunted buffalo etc.etc.
New cars, new houses, etc. were never a part of their lives. They were content to live off the land. We try to force our way of life on them. Let's talk casinos. How much more could we give them to help themselves than by letting them have gambling. They have the tools to make a better life for themselves. You can lead a horse to water,,,,,

Anonymous said...

The Native Americans need a leader (i.e. Ghandi), someone to raise them up above their grief and anger and bitterness, to empower themselves to say we were wronged and treated terribly, but we are a resilient and strong people and we are better than this.
The gov't can do what it can for them in terms of money and education and land, etc., but ultimately it's their choice to forgive and let go of that anger and move on to make their tribes positive and forward thinking.

Anonymous said...

Why do we (whites) have to keep paying for our great great grandfather's mistakes? If someone hurt my family I would not expect his children's children to make it better to me. I am sorry for what the whites did to Native Americans but I don't feel that I owe them anything. I go to the casinos, that should be enough. They can get jobs, cars, and schooling just like everyone else. It's their turn to take it upon themselves to make thier life better.

Anonymous said...

Why do we (whites) have to keep paying for our great great grandfather's mistakes?

This was their country, just like the current territory that Israel inhabits belonged to Palestinians. What if they wanted their country back, instead of just compensation. It could be a lot uglier.

river man said...

I could probably write a book on current white and native relations, but I won't. It's a tough thing. Relations or getting along with one another can be a tricky thing to do. I know their are other divisions between people, such as between the rich and the middle class. Or between the white collars and blue collars. I also know their are similarities among whites and Natives or blue collars and white collars that help them get along and work together. I also agree that Native Americans need strong leaders among them that have the courage, charisma and skills to help bridge the gap between Natives and whites. Natives need the likes of a modern day Chief Sitting Bull and Martin Luther King Jr. Whites also need stong leaders and we do have some but we need more of them. I think presidential nominee Obama would be a great pick who would have the courage to bring changes in this country. I believe our Senators Dorgan and Conrad are also strong white leaders who want to help bridge the gap. But we also as normal Americans, whites and Natives, can help bridge the gap and become friends with each other and work out our differences at the friendship level.

river man said...

Natives and whites have long ago broken the the trust between each other. Sure there has been progress to restore that trust, but a lot more needs to be done. Their are a few, but rare few, communities where Natives and Whites live side by side and get along. For example, the town of Shakopee and Minneapolis/St. Paul. are both prosperous and peaceful. Whites and Natives need to work together to create strong solutions to fix our problems we have between each other. We need friendships and partnerships with each other.

Anonymous said...

"What if they wanted their country back, instead of just compensation. It could be a lot uglier."

For whom? Last I checked, we won.

They can certainly try to take it back, but I'm pretty sure they won't get too damn far out of the rez.

Anonymous said...

For all of you ignoramous's who ask why we should be paying, is because we signed a treaty with them. You can start at the 1868 Ft.Laramie Treaty for some good historical knowledge. Until then, don't make yourself sound like a moron by asking why we have to pay. We agreed to it. No wonder American Indians don't trust us. We are weasels when it comes to us keeping our word. Geez, get acquainted with the facts.

Anonymous said...

9:28 AM, September 30, 2008
That was truly one of the most ignorant things I have read. I will tell you why. Because if the government wants to come and take your land and relocate you, (hypothetically, I know you don't own land) you would want to be compensated, right? If the gov. signed a contract with you, giving you what they are giving the american indians, you would sue them if they didnt uphold their end of the contract, right? You are paying for your ancestors mistakes because it is the law.

Anonymous said...

Re: For whom? Last I checked, we won.

yeah, you and george custer...lol
It has been settled in a court of law. They don't have to kick anybody else's ass like what happened to custer. They are getting us where it hurts the most. Our pocket books. lol
...sorry, but don't blame them.

Anonymous said...

Need some cheese to go with your whine? ? ? ?

The US Government has been paying every year. Maybe it's time to make that final payment and ask for an audit. You are given the rights of a sovereign nation and yet are allowed to vote in off 'rez' elections. Maybe if you took care of the problems on the reservation their wouldn't be a need for the 'rez' anymore.

5 and B said...

Mike Jacobs wrote an editorial for Sunday's paper regarding UND’s School of Communication. I find it extremely funny and ironic that an article about the communications and journalism schools contained a huge malapropism.

"Still, it rebounds to his credit..." I'm pretty sure he meant to say "redounds."

It's difficult to write with gravitas when you use the wrong word.

vcsuvike said...

Looks like the FargoDome snagged another big rock concert... AC/DC. Some day I'd like to see a rock concert at the Alerus...

Anonymous said...

Maybe we should consider the 'debt' we have caused and consider of ways of paying them back. If America paid every country it caused heartache to for decades and decades our ecomony would be in a lot more hurt then it already is. It's this guilt be association that probably causes the US to give so much in humanitarium aid. People have been going to war and having their land taken away since the dawn of time. You can either 'when in rome' or build the walls of Jerico. In history most of these places that would forbid the outside world florished with prosperity in education, food, culture etc etc etc. I don't see that happening and if I did I wouldn't say anything. I think people are afraid to say "Hey, is this how you want to live? Is this the life you want for your children and what can we do to help you so it doesn't have to be this way. This may not be what you wanted and we are sorry but this is the way it is so you can either adapt or lay down and…." It's hard knocks. We can't pay forever. It's just not reasonable.

Anonymous said...

The treaty was to give them the reservations and we have given them the gambeling at casinos. In turn we gave them a place to live so they wouldn't have to mingle with the common folk and we gave them a means to make money. I don't think there is anything else we need to do to make things better for them. If we want to compensate for everyone that was hurt by our great grandfathers than you can start by compensating my family. The KKK ran my great grandparents out of Texas and I would like their land back. Yes, the KKK didn't like white people who didn't agree with them.

Anonymous said...

I don't hear the indians complaining. I just hear the white people complain. We are really ignorant when it comes to the native americans. What part of "we took their land" don't you get. We admitted we were wrong. We agreed top pay them for their land. What is it that you people dont get? So the kkk kicked your ancestors out of town,duh, it wasnt your land to begin with.

Anonymous said...

2:35 PM, September 30, 2008

you should not try to comment about something you have absolutely no knwledge of because you make yourself sound very ignorant.

Anonymous said...

Name one society in history that has been as kind to those they have conquered as the United States has.

WE CANNOT PAY FOREVER.

Simple as that.

Anonymous said...

If the left would quit creating victim classes it would make it much easier to assist those that truly need it. (heavy, man)

Anonymous said...

We are not a conquering nation. Who have we "conquered"? What a moronic statement...

Anonymous said...

"So the kkk kicked your ancestors out of town,duh, it wasnt your land to begin with."
Native Americans never inhabited Texas.
You are the one sounding ignorant now.

Jess said...

The bridal shop that moved from downtown to the Grandcities Mall looks like it's doing pretty well in its new location. Good job to them!

Anonymous said...

"We are not a conquering nation."

Now THERE'S a moronic statement.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone want to join the death poll when Neil Diamond mysteriously cancels his Alerus date? At 100+ bucks a ticket, I just don't see this date happening.

Anonymous said...

Name a country we've conquered

river man said...

This subject and need has created some interesting dialogue, and interesting perspectives. Some see the need to help and partner with Native Americans, and some want to keep the way things are. Most of the comment in this thread have valid points on both sides. In my view this is complicated and controversial issue. From myself, a white guy, I am sorry for the heartache and pain my whtite ancestors and their government has caused on the Natives. I believe we whites had good intentions at first such as the Lewis and Clark expedition and some early treaties. But we couldn't keep to the original treaties because of greed, greed for land, gold and power. I am sorry for that. So, yes we do owe are Native friends, we owe them to help rebuild their lands and a share in the economic prosperity of this country. I'm not saying we should live their lives, Each person, Native and non Natives, have to live their own lives still and help themselves.

One last note, greed doesn't serve anybody any good, just take a look at our present crisis. It is because of greed and irresponsible executives, and our dependence on foreing Oil that we are in a recession maybe heading toward a depression. But I have confidence in our government and the American worker to fix this problem.

Anonymous said...

Here is a list of indians native to what we call texas.
The Caddos
The Karankawas
The Coahuiltecan
The Lipan, or Lipan-Apache
The Tonkawa
I wouldn't expect you to know that or be able to find that information. If you are going to talk about a subject, do a little homework so you don't sound totally ignorant.

Anonymous said...

Did you really say that native americans never inhabited Texas?
omg...lol

Anonymous said...

river man,

You may want to get your facts straight regarding the current condition of our economy. The so-called crisis was created by government failure, not the markets. Do some research, it's all out there plain as day.

Anonymous said...

Yep,

The Dems let the party go on too long at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and caused the current economic conditions....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

Anonymous said...

Gwen Ifill needs to recuse herself from moderating tomorrow night's VP debate.

What a crock!

Anonymous said...

Yup. But it fits perfectly with the Chicago political machine way of doing things.

Anonymous said...

"Name a country we've conquered"

Puerto Rico.

Anonymous said...

"Puerto Rico" and now it's one of the 58 states! :-)

river man said...

Everyone has their version of what happened to the economic crisis. I don't know everything about this mess, but does that mean I can't talk about it giving my own commentary. My comments are how I see it. I am not a professional journalist, but dos that mean my comments have no validity. My comments are just as equal as anyboy elses. And people see things different, different points of view.

But you're right, I missed something, part of it was lax regulation or oversight from the government that let these financial institutions do what they did. And it's a shame. But I think it's more complicated than that.

Anonymous said...

Is any one concerned about the Viewpoint Article in the GF Herald today by Chief of Police Packett ? Is it a conflict of interest for Chief to be on the BOD of a sexist-feminist advocate group ?

Anonymous said...

greenglass, just because you dont sign the comment doesnt mean we dont know it is you...lol

Anonymous said...

The 40 Days of Life vigil and fast has begun. I'm glad, as there will be fewer idiots out in the restaurants this weekend.

Anonymous said...

What a completely idiotic letter to The Herald the other day regarding Sarah Palin and community organizers. When Palin was announced as McCain's VP running mate, Obama was the petty one who belittled her experience and continually referred to her as the mayor of a small town and not the Governor of Alaska. The comments in her acceptance speech were a reaction to Obama's comments. Regardless of how you lean in the upcoming election, you have to admit, the letter was idiotic.

Anonymous said...

that letter had me baffled as well.
What was the point of publishing a letter from California anyways? Any relation to anyone in town here...maybe? just asking

Anonymous said...

Yes, a daughter.

Anonymous said...

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Anonymous said...

greenass are you choking? Anyone know the cyber Heimlich?

Anonymous said...

LA Suits closed or moved. Anyone know the details?

Tom said...

WHAT is with all the panhandlers on 32nd Ave South? Isn't that illegal?

Sheila said...

Tom,
I've also noticed the panhandling along 32nd, and had the same question so I did a little research. Here's what I found out:
Panhandling is legal under the U.S. Constitution’s First Amendment. In some cities it's regulated by city ordinance (ie, panhandlers are requeired to have a permit issued by the City and must abide by the conditions of the permit.) Not sure if that's the case in GF.

Panhandling, even with a permit, is illegal:

-After sunset or before sunrise
-In any public transportation vehicle or facility including loading and unloading areas
-In any vehicle on the street
-On private property unless the owner or occupant has granted permission

It's also illegal if carried out in the following ways:
- By using profane or abusive language, either during the solicitation or following a refusal
-In a group of two or more persons
-In a manner which could be perceived as a threat
-By intimidating or obstructing pedestrian or vehicular traffic
-By assaulting or aggressively begging, including any physical touching
-When using false or misleading solicitations

Thoughts?

Anonymous said...

"Thoughts?"

I miss the days when we had vagrancy laws. I think beggars should be licensed and be forced to show need. If you've got a car, you don't get a license, and that would get rid of most, if not all, of them.

Anonymous said...

I thought we had the mission to help with that problem...

Tom said...

A few years ago there was a piece on the local news about a group of men who lived together in Grafton or some other small town around here, and every day they'd all load up in a van and come to Grand Forks where they'd spend the day begging at various posts around town. There's also reportedly a panhandling couple (young man and woman) who drive a white car that they park in the vicinity of Kohls of Walmart. One of them stands at the intersection near Target/Holiday gas station and the other one stands down by Walmart. At the end of the day, whoever has the car picks up the other one and they head off together. Quite a business, if you ask me. I guess it's too much trouble to respond to all those 'help-wanted' signs posted in businesses on the south end.

Anonymous said...

"I thought we had the mission to help with that problem..."

These people aren't homeless, panhandling is their JOB. If they've got a car, they've got money.

Anonymous said...

For all you people that think it is such a good life: try it for a month , I will provide you with a cardboard sign !

Anonymous said...

Well I noticed that the guy at the entry to cenex on 20th street had two dogs one day. The next day, the guy had one dog that was different than the other two. I actually saw a guy give him money! Ya know, I've probably accused some people on here of not being so bright and I've probably said some things that weren't too bright, but if you give these guys money, you are a real moron...

Anonymous said...

I gave him a water, bag of chips and a sandwich. I also forgot my pack of smokes in the bag...but whatever. My own experience is that some people are mentally capable of keeping a job, and are not crazy enough to be institutionalized either. If you really can't get a job and are to old to expect family to take care of you what do you got? The mission? Maybe some of them are to crazy to live their too, not that they wouldn't keep them but the person might not have the social ability's to function in a place like that and would need to stay away for peace of mind. This guy didn't look like he had all his bricks in the same barrel, if he had any. I saw a bunch of people give him stuff, but never money. All any one needs is clothes, food and a roof (card board box) The dogs should be taken away though, if you can't take care of your self you have no right to take care of anything else.

Anonymous said...

I meant some people are NOT mentally capable of keeping jobs. you get it

Anonymous said...

The Soloist out on 21 November 2008 starring; Robert Downey Jr. and Jamie Foxx

Check it out!

not greenglass

river_man said...

Sounds like a lot of people would rather see homeless stay homeless. Personally, I don't think the rescue shelter is a very good solution, maybe short term (no longer than 6 months), definitely not a long term solution. Nobody really cares about their stories, whether they have experience or education to find and keep a good job. I hate the mentality that if the homeless are out of site, their out of mind. I'm glad there are people panhandling, they need money to live to. In my opinion, it's just as legitimate as as any other job.

Anonymous said...

" Sheila said...

Panhandling, even with a permit, is illegal: "


I'd be interested where you found this information.

Anonymous said...

Has Carmike 4 closed? No listings for show times on the Carmike website or on Fandango.

Sheila said...

If you read my entire comment, it's illegal under the circumstances I listed after that sentence. Otherwise, it is legal, but you need a permit in some states. Just google 'panhandling' and you'll find the same information over and over.

As far as riverman's comment of" Sounds like a lot of people would rather see homeless stay homeless", I'm not sure where he got that impression. Just looking to foment a little controversy, I assume.

Sheila said...

There's an interesting piece on the subject at http://city-journal.org/2008/18_3_panhandling.html

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