Thursday, August 07, 2008

Open Thread #90

What's on your mind? Heard any good rumors or interesting stories lately?

114 comments:

"John" said...

I've lived in Grand Forks for four, going on five, years now. I am in my very early twenties and self-employed. I am looking for a house. What Grand Forks needs are housing options for younger people. What do I mean by that? I mean:

- No $20,000+ specials on new properties.

- No $3,000/year property tax.

- Houses that are under $180,000 that were built later than the 1920s.

- Houses that don't all look the same. Grand Forks has two types of houses: Old early 1900s houses, and New "Crary-built" homes. Crary-built homes all look exactly the same. Are there any relatively new two story houses in Grand Forks?

For these reasons I have started looking at Fargo and other areas for real estate.

Anonymous said...

That is exactly the reason why we chose the house we are in...no choice at the time. Didn't think we'd be here long enough for it to really matter but I agree with you John, and personally think Crary owns the market here in GF. There is really no getting away from a home either built by or sold by Crary...Good Luck with your housing search, its too bad you have to look outside the box because this town sure won't do it.

GF City Cop said...

I was just wondering...and please be fair and honest. What do people think of the police department and police officers in this town? (Please limit the whole thing that happened in Feb. with two officers leaving the guy out in the cold - I have heard plenty of opinions about that!) I am especially interested in first-hand experiences and what people thought of the officer(s) they talked to. Please be constructive and limit the "my cousins boyfriend's friend" experiences, as we all know how the phone game works!

travellin man said...

GF is sprawling way too much. For a city seeing modest (but respectable) economic and populalation growth, the physical size of the city is becoming vast - and not in a good way.

Much of the new development in the area could take place by redeveloping sites along existing commercial streets like S. Washington, etc. Servicing this new land is costly and makes the city less pleasant. There are few places more oppressive to someone on foot than a massive asphalt parking lot.

More of GF's energy should also be directed at downtown development, but that's another story. Fargo has managed to build some momentum downtown, so I think GF can do it too.

Anonymous said...

Both "John" and "travellin man" write comments that developers and city officials should hear. Developers will build to the market, but I sometimes wonder if they know their market.

Anonymous said...

GF needs to save some money and reduce the number of cop patrols around the area, you know save some gas. If they don't do that, they are simply wasting money.

Anonymous said...

The cost of heating my small 1925 HUD built house is getting scary. I can't imagine the utility bills for these vinyl sided castles popping up like dandelions south of 32nd.

Anonymous said...

Are there any ATV trails or clubs in the GF local area?

Anonymous said...

I haven't heard any complaints about noise, fighting, litter from downtown businesses lately. Is that just because school's out, or did the police start patrolling on foot, or something else?

Matthew said...

There's still noise, fighting and litter. It's not just the college kids.

GF City Cop: I had a fine experience the one time I interacted with the police here. One thing I would suggest is that the PD start paying attention to cyclists, both by making eye contact with them occasionally and by pulling over some of the ones that don't follow the rules of the road (riding on the wrong side, running red lights, etc.). The eye contact thing just makes us feel loved and protected, and the enforcement of laws would just serve as a reminder to be safe.

Travellin Man: I agree with you. I don't know why we keep expanding over the top of such wonderful farmland, but I also don't know how to stop it.

Anon 9:20: There are some trails on the Greenway on each side of the river. They've been recently mowed. I don't know about clubs. Just do me a favor and watch out more mountain bikers, will ya?

Anonymous said...

which river has the atv trails? I live on red lake river and the only good trails (that I was aware of)there have been posted as private property - I am riding with small children so there will be no mountain bikers mowed down - just would like to get out and enjoy the neighborhood on these last nice days of summer.

Anonymous said...

Good point on farmland Matthew. Here in the valley we have the most prescious natural resource in the world, one we literally can't live without and everybody wants to cover it up with mcmansions and restaurants.

Anonymous said...

A agree with all, but until somebody starts developing North, the lemmings in this town will continue to flock South.

Plum said...

I have had mixed interactions with GF police - in my younger years I was arrested, and that officer was extremely nice and respectful of me, which, given the situation, was both surprising and greatly appreciated.

More recently, I was walking down the street downtown, and a female officer with a canine unit was chatting with a male officer (they were both out of their cars in the street, I was on the sidewalk) the dog started spazzing out, and I looked over, and the female officer snapped (extremely rudely) "move along" or some such thing. (note - I never left the sidewalk or even came close to approaching the car, simply slowed my pace a bit and looked at the dog)

Really? You take your high-strung service dog and YOU move along. Or if you want to chat, go park in a lot somewhere instead of along a public street at 7ish in the evening.

But eh, maybe it's prejudicial to say so, but I tend to find women in authority positions to either over or underplay their power - so I generally am cautious in interactions with them.

Anonymous said...

just curious....is Grand Forks a city or a farming community?

"john" said...

Grand Forks is a city.

Re: Police... I was stopped as soon as I entered downtown GF for having expired tabs. I thought the grace period was 30 days instead of 10 (or whatever it is) and the police officer was nice and let me off with a warning. Other than that, I can't really say anything besides the fact that any time I go driving I see at least three patrol cars. There are A LOT of cops in this town.

Anonymous said...

Seems like there is plenty of farmland between here and Fargo. I don't think Grand Forks is in any danger of becoming New York. - A New Resident

OUWxGuesser said...

"- Houses that are under $180,000 that were built later than the 1920s."

Well... we're in our mid 20s and ended up with a home built in the 1880s. If anything, olding an owner home thoroughly gets you up to speed in home ownership... if you like to get your hands dirty. I'd wonder what you can get with your money if you're willing to buy lower, then spend the money updating the house. All I know is it definitely feels like *home* and not a cookie cutter house.

Now out of curiosity... what was your highest heating bill last winter? Just wondering how different our bill is for being in an older home (although all of the windows are new).

"john" said...

OUWxGuesser:

I am no stranger to fixing up older homes (my parents have gone through quite a few). I like cookie-cutter homes, but not the homes that are cheaply made, with the $500 crappy kitchen cabinets and kitchen design, split-level design, etc. etc. etc.

Uniqueness is a good thing, but older houses just bring problems. The few older homes that I could stand to look at had terrible foundations.

Regarding the heating bill... I currently live in a corner, three bedroom apartment, and my worst electricity bill was about $240 this past winter.

Anonymous said...

I used to live near the 28th/washington intersection. On summer nights it was like living next to a drag racing strip. No police presence whatsoever. It's a miracle south washington isn't covered with blood, guts and mangled car parts.

Anonymous said...

just curious....is Grand Forks a city or a farming community?

It may be a "city", but all the retired farmers and farm family offspring who live and visit, give GF a very "country come to town" feeling.

Anonymous said...

...Not to mention all the pre-fab steel buildings on the outskirts, which are totally small town.

Anonymous said...

I have had next to no contact with the police in GF. However, one incident does stand out.

I had my jacket stolen from the coatrack of a downtown restaurant some years ago. It contained my keys and checkbook. The hostess gave the officer a description of three people who entered the restaurant, looked at the coats there and left. She was not there when the jacket was taken. When the officer heard the jacket was worth less that $200 he obviously lost interest. Luckily, there were few checks left and I knew the numbers, so I put stop payments on them. When the forged checks came back, one of them actually had the signers SS # on it. (Pretty clear clerks don't check IDs against names on the check). I sent photocopies to the officer, and he did absolutely nothing to follow it up, even though he could have traced the name of the forger through the SS #. I guess something under $200 and forging checks were not important to him. From then on, I take my jacket to the table with me in restaurants.

Anonymous said...

GF Cop- my experiences with the GFPD is mixed. I am 23 and work in a downtown bar. I am grateful for a lot of the work they do. On the other hand it seems anytime I have to interact with the police outside of work I am treated like the enemy and a young punk no matter how courteous I am in return. I understand a lot of that attitude springs from the fact that most younger people are probably rude to police officers, but when the officers assume every younger bar patron downtown is a jerk it just perpetuates the dislike both sides have for each other. Also obviously downtown has a bad reputation for drunks and the crimes they commit, but isn't some of that possibly due to the overpolicing of downtown? If police had a similar pressence along old mill road, bucks, and el roco all night long 7 days a week would the results be that much different?

Anonymous said...

When I was visiting GF last spring, I lost my wallet at Lithia Ford (they found it a month later, EMPTY, but that's another story). The officer came to my mom's place and took the report at my convenience. He explained that I didn't need a license to get on the flight home but that the police report would be necessary to file an insurance claim. The officer couldn't have been nicer or more professional.

Anonymous said...

Having problems with the police? Cut the mullet, problem solved.

Anonymous said...

Everyone hates cops until they need one. Fickle people. You get what you deserve. That police dog wouldn't have barked at you if you didn't smell like THC.

Anonymous said...

ya you obv had drugs plastered on you if you were gettin beef from the police dog

Sioux fan said...

GF City Cop: Thanks for this loaded question that you asked.

One of the worst GF Cop experiences I heard of was a young rookie pulling over a friend who had tinted license plates. Apparently they are illegal in GF, but sold in GF at many auto stores. The cop was a jerk about it and gave a ticket instead of a warning. I know there is a fine line, but if cops thought about things like this a minute, and gave a warning, it would be better for their image. Also, is it true that you could pull me over for having my Fighting Sioux license plate frame on the back of my vehicle?

Anonymous said...

"The cop was a jerk about it and gave a ticket instead of a warning."

They were illegal. Not seeing the problem here? Ignorance isn't an excuse.

Anonymous said...

Ive never had any personal experience with the GF police and I've lived in the area for 22 years. However a few years ago a good friend of mine was in a bar and just standing there talking to friends when someone he barely knew walked up and hit him over the eye with a beer bottle. He ended up needing 10 stitches. This was not a typical bar fight. My friend was just standing there, the person hit him and then ran off. We were able to give the police the name, address, and even workplace of this individual, yet they didn't care and no charges were brought against him. So, apparently it's legal in this town to assault people to the extent it results in an ER visit.

Anonymous said...

anon - oh come on...do you really expect the police to "care" about every bar fight/assault they get dispatched to? Did you want the officer to give them a hug? Remember, they go to several of these types of cases every week. They are to investigate and give first aid, not hugs and cherry pie. Are you sure the police didn't ask for charges and then the state's attorney didn't file them. i am sure that this is why when GF City Cop asked about this (s)he asked for personal experiences.
I have had a traffic stop by a University police officer (headlight out) and a GF officer (crash) and both have been pretty benign. I respect the work that they do thought, as I have witnessed some pretty good relations downtown with bar patrons and never seen then yell or tell people off downtown when certainly I would have if I were in their position.

Anonymous said...

POLL... Do you like or dislike Gillys bar downtown Grand Forks and why?

Anonymous said...

When it comes to the cops in this town. I've never had a problem with them. It seems that the only people who have a problem with cops are the one's breaking laws. Hmmmm...

Anonymous said...

Who doesn't dislike Gillys downtown? I work there and have a general distaste for the place. It isn't the bartenders, bouncers, or even promotions that they run(other than the new guys night-$10 all you can drink taps). It's the crowd the bar attracts. Most of the night time regulars are trashy people who I wouldn't trust with a church offering plate. I can't even imagine the lengths and effort that it would take to change the place.

Anonymous said...

this is off the subject, but does anyone know of a reasonably priced moving company? we're selling our house and I don't feel like packing and moving all our stuff again!

Coffee Guy said...

There's a blues fest downtown on Saturday. The paper notes how organizers are hoping the show will allow people to hear music, then enjoy the great downtown restaurants. Did they know that Sanders is closed for a private event, and the TFrog isn't even open on Saturday? I've also been calling Giuseppe's all wee for a Saturday reservation, but they seem to be closed this week, as well.

Well, at least people can still go to Subway for a nice meal with out of town guests.

Bubble Head said...

There is plenty of places to eat accross the river (Whiteys, Blue Moose, Mikes, Applebees). There is also Rhombas Pizza in GF. Great pizza, but a bit cramped.

Anonymous said...

anonymous 9:06 AM, August 08, 2008

go to www.cmemove.com

Anonymous said...

Why isn't the Toasted Frog open on Saturday? I can see Sander's being closed for a private event, but the frog is always open...

Local LEO said...

"even though he could have traced the name of the forger through the SS #."

Unless the SS# happens to be in the local system, the SS# is not traceable as it is supposed to be a confidential number. That's why most states, ND included, quit using them for driver's license #s.

Anonymous said...

At the time, the Drivers License number was the SS #.

Coffee Guy said...

"There is plenty of places to eat accross the river (Whiteys, Blue Moose, Mikes, Applebees). There is also Rhombas Pizza in GF. Great pizza, but a bit cramped."

We want a more elegant dinner, not pizza or anything on the Blue Moose level.

Anonymous said...

assuming the guy had a nd license...

Coffee Guy said...

Before anybody gets on me for not wanting pizza, we're hoping to celebrate my wife's birthday and our anniversary. We've narrowed our choices down to the restaurants where the wait staff doesn't need to tell us that they'll be our "cashier at the table."

Anonymous said...

Toasted Frog is generally open on Saturdays, but they're closed now for a few days while they re-do their floors. Looks like slim pickings for dining in downtown GF this weekend! Rhombus Guys can't accommodate many, though they inherited a bit more kitchen equipment when the Thief River Falls branch recently closed.

Anonymous said...

Toasted Frog elegant?

Steve said...

Help! This may not be the proper forum to ask this, but I just moved back to the area after being gone for 10 years. I need a good, quality, friendly but affordable dentist. Anyone here happy with theirs? Any recommendations?

Thanks in advance,

Steve

ec99 said...

Try Steve Swanson.

Anonymous said...

Did Rhombus Cafe in TRF really close? That was probably one of my favorite places to eat when I went there for work.

Coffee Guy said...

"Toasted Frog elegant?"

I said "more elegant." By Grand Forks standards the Frog is "more elegant" than 95% of the other restaurants in town.

I finally got through to Giuseppe's, and they are also closed this weekend. Did the Blues Fest people even ask around before touting the great downtown restaurant scene?

Anonymous said...

Steve Swanson is very good. Also try Charles Bridgeford. I go to Bridgeford now. He is the only dentist I've been to who I am not afraid to get a root canal from. He's very patient and aware of your anxiety and pain, and does very well to minimize both.

Drew said...

I really like Parr on Washington. I've been going there since I was 5 and I've always had the best service, the most reliable advice, and accurate diagnoses.

On the police, there is no reason for there to be four police cars in the same location unless there was some form of dangerous infraction. I saw a bunch of cars in the parking lot of Columbia mall loitering at nothing. It's incredibly unnerving.

Cops in this town can be really kind and understanding, however, it seems like they cannot control themselves at any traffic stop or when on patrol around town.

QUOTE
"The cop was a jerk about it and gave a ticket instead of a warning."

They were illegal. Not seeing the problem here? Ignorance isn't an excuse.

4:37 PM, August 07, 2008

If an item is sold around town, in a legitimate retail store, it should be assumed that the item is legal. I think it is highly unreasonable to know every vague law that exists in a city like grand forks. Ignorance is one thing, but the availability of the knowledge is another thing.

Anonymous said...

"assuming the guy had a nd license..."

So the clerk invented a number and wrote it on the check?

Anonymous said...

dude - he had your stolen checks...do you think it is possible he had a stolen ID?? Think about it. Four police cars were at Columbia Mall for no reason? Do you know it was for no reason?? If so, how?

I watched a police officer being rolled into Altru on a gerney the other night at about 3am...when is the last time you were assaulted like that at work? (yes, it was from a felonious assault) I guess I would want safety in numbers as well if I were a police officer.

Anonymous said...

"dude - he had your stolen checks...do you think it is possible he had a stolen ID??"

Well, dude, we'll never know that, will we? Why? Because despite the information he had, the cop opted not to follow up on the case. Now, is this a police policy? Can officers simply leave a case open because they have no wish to investigate it? I might add, I had to follow up with him, to make sure he got all the documentation I sent him. He had. I never heard from him again.

Anonymous said...

I bet you could re-enact the chase sequence from the movie "Bullit" on Washington and no cops would show up.

Time to retire! said...

Okay, that's it!

Marilyn Hagerty is reviewing the goddamned phonebook.

The PHONEBOOK, people! What will it take to get the Herald to remove that waste of space? She's reading the phonebook and writing about what she sees in there. You know what's next, right? Full reports on her infrequent bowel movements, followed by a column listing everything in her purse at that moment.

Jesus, this is what happens when you don't retire at the appropriate age. Somebody needs to slap Mike Jacobs in the mouth.

Anonymous said...

She could have at least talked about the maps in the phone books. Do they have updated maps of the Greenway or will people from out of town still wonder where it is when they look at the phone book for info.
I understand why she didn't review the the books from a Marxist perspective. Wait I know why. The Herald as a rag for the business community has always done everything it can to suppress that worldview.
I asked her publisher husband 30 yrs. why he didn't have more editorial content from a Hegelian perspective and he said because people here don't read Hegel.

Anonymous said...

Nobody reads Hegel, not even Hegel.

Kelly Clow said...

Let me get this straight...

You are upset that Marilyn Hagerty didn't review the PHONEBOOK from a Marxist perspective because the Herald is oppressing the common man through Capitalism?!

OK, are you stoned?

Anonymous said...

How long before home of economy closes for good?

Anonymous said...

Coffee guy, why didnt' you go to the Bronze Boot when you heard that Sanders was not available?
Not that it is elegant, but other than Sanders downtown, there is nothing else. All things considered, GF Goodribs had excellent ribs and steak. They also had the best shrimp scampi in town.

Anonymous said...

Hey Kelly Clow, good one. lol

Anonymous said...

Didn't they name a shithouse or something like that after marilyn hagerty? oh, a liftstation, that's what it was...

Coffee Guy said...

We got into a SNAG dinner, which was great, as always. We also stopped into the Blues Fest for a while, and we were totally impressed with what we saw. The music was GREAT, and the show seemed to be very well run. So kudos to the Blues Fest organizers. I'm looking forward to the next one, and I recommend it (Sept. 20th) one to anybody who wants to see some great live music downtown.

My comments above were out of frustration (and panic). I know that the organizers can't dictate or predict which restaurants will be closed. I publicly (and humbly) apologize to them if it sounded like I was blaming them for some sort of oversight.

Now, if we can only get our best restaurants to stay open we'll be all set!

Coffee Guy said...

"Coffee guy, why didnt' you go to the Bronze Boot..."

I've been to the Bronze Boot, and thought it was pretty bad. In fact, one of my dinner companions didn't want the stuffing that came with her meat, didn't even want it on the plate. Yet, the scary German waitress told her she HAD to have it on the plate, but she didn't have to eat it if she didn't want to. Yeah, that was the last time I will ever eat there.

I also had GF Good ribs, and wasn't impressed at all.

Anonymous said...

last time i was at the boot they had about 10 drip buckets hanging from the ceiling. its days are numbered.

Anonymous said...

Kelly C.
Where have you been? Of course the Herald oppresses the common man since Knight Ridder and now the Forum are petty bourgeois lacky tools of capitalist imperialist America. Just notice how they schill for the Pentagon every time they have a chance to hype UAVs as a savior for the local economy.

Anonymous said...

What is the status on the smiling water tower. Last I heard I thought it was supposed to be torn down. What is it's fate? anyone know?

Kelly Clow said...

Alright, alright.

Just lay back and let the mellow happen, OK? The mellow won't come if you're upset.

Just close your eyes, dude.

I left a glass of water on the nightstand next to you, so if your mouth gets really dry, just take a sip of it, OK? Make sure you SIT UP when you do it, though.

Alright, we'll be in the room outside if you need anything.

No, we're not leaving you, we're just out there if you need us.

Have a safe trip, man.

Anonymous said...

The Broze Boot waitress is Austrian, not German, and she is AWESOME! The Boot also has the best steak in town, and they know how to actually cook it.

Anonymous said...

Kelly C.
You can't respond to the evidence at hand without resorting to cheap shots, right?

Spearman

ec99 said...

"The Broze Boot waitress is Austrian, not German, and she is AWESOME! The Boot also has the best steak in town, and they know how to actually cook it."

I've heard good and bad comments about Trudy. From my point of view, she's the only professional waitress in town. And the guy who cooks the steaks is also a real pro. You want rare, you get rare, not medium well.

Anonymous said...

any good hockey stores in town here?

Anonymous said...

Telling a customer that he can't have his side dish on a side plate is "AWESOME"? Wow, I'm glad I don't have celiac disease.

Anonymous said...

How long till the Home of Inflation closes? Not soon enough.
They should be sued for false advertising. You can never get anyone to help you find anything. It seems though that one of them is always peeking around a corner to watch you, maybe to make sure they are not approached for help, because they won't have what you need anyway...

Anonymous said...

Coffee Guy, what does impress you, because your snobbish attitude is not impressive at all.

Kelly Clow said...

What "evidence" are you talking about?

Do you mean the assertion that a small-town local newspaper is part of some "bourgeois lacky... capitalist imperialist" conspiracy because they report that the neighboring Air Force base is in line for a major reassignment?

Or do you mean that Marilyn Hagerty is a capitalist pig for not reviewing the phonebook (the PHONEBOOK!!) in a manner that glorifies the proletariat.

C'mon, now. How could I NOT imply that that's drug-addled babbling?

Coffee Guy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Coffee Guy said...

I guess my standards are just higher than yours. Alas, there's nothing I can do about that.

Anonymous said...

I like the description of all the new housing cropping up on the south side of town: "...vinyl sided castles popping up like dandelions south of 32nd." It cracked me up. Those treeless housing developments have no character whatsoever. I greatly prefer the unique style of homes near downtown and the near southside neighborhoods. I hope the new homes being built in the low lying area along Walnut Street and 15th Avenue South blend in.

Anonymous said...

So I guess there is this law that prohibits minnesota drivers from texting. So as a registered ND driver, I dont have to worry about that BS right?

Anonymous said...

I don't believe that is correct. I think if you are a north dakotan driving in minnesoata, you would be considered a minnesota driver when it comes to the law.

Anonymous said...

Re: Now, if we can only get our best restaurants to stay open we'll be all set!

Giuseppe's?? Are you kidding?
Here's my prediction. A few more eating establishments are going to have to go down for others to exist. Better get your fill of Giuseppes now...

Anonymous said...

You have to be a moron to be texting and driving, so stay in minnesota...

Anonymous said...

Kelly C.
Spearman says, Don't be so literal minded about what I say Marilyn should be reviewing. Like I said her husband knew Hegel/Marx but knew he shouldn't ever talk in those terms if the paper would continue to exist. As far as the Herald reporting the base mission changing, read their editorials and you will hear the cheerleading role they play as they remain in line to ensure G.F. continues in the loop to receive more defense dollars to survive as a part of the Empire. Why would you think a newspaper in a military base town wouldn't play a propaganda role in a bigger picture. Again your insinuation of drug addled comments on my part is silly when an open thread is obsessed with the merits of the Bronze boot.
Spearman

Anonymous said...

The dialectic rages on: Spearman v. Clow

CG - what bands played the bluesfest? Sounds like a good event.

Anonymous said...

For all you bloggers doing research: please see if you can locate info on counterfeiters that worked for GF Herald and owned Commercial Printing in EGF. Last name Zitzow. 2 brothers were convicted and they were stopped at Canada border with phony $20 bills, drugs, and handguns. Need for current civil case. Thanks. greenglass4

Anonymous said...

Good gravy greenglass4, are you stil looking for those counterfeiters? You have posted this question on many blogs! What gives!
The bands that played were Peatmoss and Little Bobby and the Storm. The next one on Sept. 20 is still placing musical talent. There was plenty of food, beer and beverages for everyone to buy. Admission is free and the event is over by 10 p.m.Plenty of time then to grab a bite to eat downtown somewhere, Coffeeguy! I, too don't consider Bronze Boot downtown, or even good atmosphere or food...too iffy each time and who wants to pay high price for food and gamble on taste and quality?
Too bad Toasted Frog had to be closed last weekend. Still don't know were the owners of Guiseppe's have been and the Central Class of 88 sure enjoyed 'Blues on the Red' as a majority of them came over to check it out. Sure hope they were able to take in all the great changes in GGF in the last 20 years!

Anonymous said...

Just got back from visiting the mall...its pretty quiet there for a Fri night I thought. Were is everyone? What do families do around here for fun???

I did make a major observation though that ties into a past post here on this site...there is a very distinct PeePee smell around the kids play area...but from a parents standpoint I also noticed a major engineering poo poo - its nearly two blocks from the childrens play area to the nearest bathroom...what child can possibly hold it that long? For pete's sake! When a child finally realizes that they have to go, DUDE they really have to go! That is just insane to have a bathroom so far away from the kids play area...most kids will just keep playing and whiz all over themselves rather than have to leave the fun play area and walk all the way across the mall. Geesh! This shouldn't be rocket science...rip up that nasty carpet and go GREEN...put in bamboo flooring (which is water resistant) Not only would the mall look better, and smell better it would have the ecofriendly seal of progress too.

Anonymous said...

For fun: they pee in elevators. grow up. Need new thread here !

Anonymous said...

Re: Anonymous said...
For fun: they pee in elevators. grow up. Need new thread here !


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