Grand Forks Life is the first and biggest blog covering life in the city of Grand Forks, North Dakota. GrandForksGuy shares local news, rumors, and his own opinions.
Saturday, August 23, 2008
Open Thread #92
Here's a new open thread for the weekend. Keep it interesting and civil, guys!
Is anyone else offended by the flags [U.S. and others] being wrapped around winners shoulders and/or wadded up in fists that are being pumped, etc? I have no problem with holding the flag up and running with it, but a lot of what I see seems disrespectful to me.
The whole flag etiquette thing is just laughable to me ... it's a piece of cloth. Are people really so insecure and narrow minded in their patriotism to get so high-strung about a piece of fabric. Patriotism is so much deeper than that. There are heroic acts being done every day in this country, that is what we should talk about and emphasize and promote. The feeling of pride and courage is within us, not tied to the flag itself.
Forget the flag, and we all become nameless, faceless "Citizens of the World".
There's a reason people love that symbol. It's not because of blind patriotism, it's because that flag has been with us and our Grandfather's Grandfather's Grandfathers in numerous struggles, both foreign and domestic.
It was there at Iwo Jima. It saw brothers kill brothers at Gettysburg. It welcomed scores of the downtrodden at Ellis Island. It saw Mankind's first baby steps into the greater universe.
Certainly, it's "a piece of cloth", but it is also the symbol of Man's greatest achievement in freedom and self-governance.
It saw your birth, and will see your death. It IS more important than you and anything you will ever do under it.
See in it what you will, but as for me and most others, we will honor it as it deserves to be.
"That description of the flag kind of freaks me out. I didn't realize the flag was watching me so much."
All right, all right. It's a little rhetoric-heavy, I know, but I just don't like seeing one's love of country dismissed as hokey and unenlightened.
My grandfathers fought for that flag's integrity in WWII, and my father and uncles served under it with pride in the Navy. My girlfriend's father served under it in the Air Force as well.
If having respect for my country and all it's trappings is uncool, than I guess I don't want to be with that "in-crowd".
The vision of America's flag flying over all those wonderful acts is nice, but not a very good argument as to why the flag is more than just an identifying label to a country. Afterall, whose flag flew over the My Lai Massacre, whose flag did Timothy Mcveigh and the Washington D.C. Sniper wear in service, whose flag dropped the A-bomb, whose flag drove the American Indians from their own land and culture just out of greed for land, etc.
Patriotism is not defined by our red,white,blue symbol of the flag, and we should not treat the flag like it's made from holy sacred cloth.
It too has flown over many shameful and embarassing American mistakes and terroristic acts, so, no I don't get all warm and fuzzy over seeing the red,white,blue ... I do feel very proud and sentimental when I think of what brave and courageous things the people of this country have done to give me the lifestyle I have right now.
Linking: "It too has flown over many shameful and embarassing American mistakes and terroristic acts" to "whose flag dropped the A-bomb" just flushed your credibility down the toilet. Dropping that bomb probably saved more lives than it hurt. Maybe you should study history instead of Bill Ayers and Barak Obama.
Anon 7:53 your point of view about the flag sounds likes something I would expect to hear out the blame America First crowd or from a person that is of the same ilk as domestic terrorist William Ayers or Wrong Reverend Right you know the guy that said GD America from his church.
Kelly Clow, that was a great piece about the American flag. I am getting sick and tired of people dissing the American flag.
C.Y. if I was McCain I would have that picture of OBAMA's buddy William Ayers stomping on the flag all over the convention down in St Paul...
"Ugh, this town is full of UND students again............"
Uh oh, the cranky malcontents are coming out of the woodwork! UND is what helps make Grand Forks what it is: an energetic, vibrant place. What economic development would GF have without UND? If you don't like it, go move to a small town where the population gets grayer with each passing year.
Students are a major part of this city. I wouldn't be dissing them they bring a lot of cash to our city. Some stay here after they graduate and become a part of the community.
It sickens me that so many unpatriotic people wrap themselves in the flag for political gain while most true patriots never wear it on their sleeve. They don't have to.
how about the days after 9/11 when people in the New York area were driving around with flag poles attached to their cars and SUVs. that lasted a solid two months and that was it. patriotism is done by actions and not by what you strap to your car or body! njcoyote
"Students are a major part of this city. I wouldn't be dissing them they bring a lot of cash to our city."
They do bring some cash, depending upon how much they saved up for college or how much there parents give them. But the majority of cash the students recieve is either from the federal or state government money in the form of loans and grants, other grants, scholarships and other sources. The students only bring a smaller amount of cash.
i think "bringing a lot of cash to the city" should not be taken literally. How much money do you suppose students spend just to fill their cars with gas? Or how much they spend in the bars and restaurants. I would guess a lot. Don't underestimate the money they spend, and who gives a rat's arse where it came from...
As a recent UND grad, I can attest to the fact that I spend the same amount of money in Grand Forks now as I did throughout my college years. Everyone still needs to eat, a place to sleep and transportation. Not to mention, there are a ton of UND jobs that are partially funded if not fully funded by the tuition that students pay. These employees then in turn contribute to society financially. So take away the students you take away the need for many jobs.
I agree the students have a significant impact on this city. But they are only part of the equation. Where they get the money is important. Unless they come from wealthy families, most of them wouldn't be able to go to college. Most of their tuition is funded from loans, grants and scholarships. Take away these sources and they wouldn't have the money for college.
and don't forget all the vomit thats contributed after school starts. Over the weekend, not once, but twice, people vomited behind my place of business, with at least one being remainders from a nearby bar. The quieER, cleanER summer months are over, everyone go get trashed downtown...
To suggest that Bush is like McCain is silly, or a contiunation of the Bush Presidency is silly.
McCain and Bush aren't really all that simular or that friendly. McCain isn't even a Conservative and is basically a RINO and has thumbed conservatives in the eye for years. If Bush pick Lieberman McCain will be done.
Bush and McCain don't really even like each other as well, it is pretty much documented all over the place. To suggest that they would run the government the same is way is false.
Look for McCain to throw conservatives a bone and pick a conservative.
I just want to say that I am a student at UND and I do not get a penny from the government nor my family. All of my tuition is out of my own pocket from working full time during the summer and part time during the school year.
ps. I also don't go to the bars every often and when I do, I don't drink in excess.
Maybe I am one of the exceptions to the equation, but please don't generalize. We are not all money suckers from the government and drunks.
Who cares where the students get their money. They are spending it here and that is what counts.If they are getting grants, loans or whatever, good foor them for going after it and the students are all very welcome as far as I am concerned.
Please keep your comments civil and relevant. GrandForksGuy reserves the right to remove comments. GrandForksGuy is not responsible for the content of comments.
What? Nothing yet!!!! A really slow start today.
ReplyDeleteFirst!
Is anyone else offended by the flags [U.S. and others] being wrapped around winners shoulders and/or wadded up in fists that are being pumped, etc? I have no problem with holding the flag up and running with it, but a lot of what I see seems disrespectful to me.
The whole flag etiquette thing is just laughable to me ... it's a piece of cloth. Are people really so insecure and narrow minded in their patriotism to get so high-strung about a piece of fabric. Patriotism is so much deeper than that. There are heroic acts being done every day in this country, that is what we should talk about and emphasize and promote. The feeling of pride and courage is within us, not tied to the flag itself.
ReplyDeleteForget the flag, and we all become nameless, faceless "Citizens of the World".
ReplyDeleteThere's a reason people love that symbol. It's not because of blind patriotism, it's because that flag has been with us and our Grandfather's Grandfather's Grandfathers in numerous struggles, both foreign and domestic.
It was there at Iwo Jima. It saw brothers kill brothers at Gettysburg. It welcomed scores of the downtrodden at Ellis Island. It saw Mankind's first baby steps into the greater universe.
Certainly, it's "a piece of cloth", but it is also the symbol of Man's greatest achievement in freedom and self-governance.
It saw your birth, and will see your death. It IS more important than you and anything you will ever do under it.
See in it what you will, but as for me and most others, we will honor it as it deserves to be.
kelly clow-
ReplyDeleteThat description of the flag kind of freaks me out. I didn't realize the flag was watching me so much. ;)
I miss spearman
ReplyDelete"That description of the flag kind of freaks me out. I didn't realize the flag was watching me so much."
ReplyDeleteAll right, all right. It's a little rhetoric-heavy, I know, but I just don't like seeing one's love of country dismissed as hokey and unenlightened.
My grandfathers fought for that flag's integrity in WWII, and my father and uncles served under it with pride in the Navy. My girlfriend's father served under it in the Air Force as well.
If having respect for my country and all it's trappings is uncool, than I guess I don't want to be with that "in-crowd".
Ugh, this town is full of UND students again............
ReplyDeleteThe vision of America's flag flying over all those wonderful acts is nice, but not a very good argument as to why the flag is more than just an identifying label to a country. Afterall, whose flag flew over the My Lai Massacre, whose flag did Timothy Mcveigh and the Washington D.C. Sniper wear in service, whose flag dropped the A-bomb, whose flag drove the American Indians from their own land and culture just out of greed for land, etc.
ReplyDeletePatriotism is not defined by our red,white,blue symbol of the flag, and we should not treat the flag like it's made from holy sacred cloth.
It too has flown over many shameful and embarassing American mistakes and terroristic acts, so, no I don't get all warm and fuzzy over seeing the red,white,blue ... I do feel very proud and sentimental when I think of what brave and courageous things the people of this country have done to give me the lifestyle I have right now.
Linking: "It too has flown over many shameful and embarassing American mistakes and terroristic acts"
ReplyDeleteto "whose flag dropped the A-bomb" just flushed your credibility down the toilet. Dropping that bomb probably saved more lives than it hurt. Maybe you should study history instead of Bill Ayers and Barak Obama.
any bets on when we see the hammer & sickle flying again?
ReplyDeleteAnon 7:53 your point of view about the flag sounds likes something I would expect to hear out the blame America First crowd or from a person that is of the same ilk as domestic terrorist William Ayers or Wrong Reverend Right you know the guy that said GD America from his church.
ReplyDeleteKelly Clow, that was a great piece about the American flag. I am getting sick and tired of people dissing the American flag.
C.Y. if I was McCain I would have that picture of OBAMA's buddy William Ayers stomping on the flag all over the convention down in St Paul...
Anon 753 your disgusting.
ReplyDeleteanon 7:53,
ReplyDeleteguess what? The flag is what reperesents that pride and sentiment that you feel. Don't be a dumbass...
"any bets on when we see the hammer & sickle flying again?"
ReplyDeleteIt flies daily over spearman's house.
yeah, my bet says we won't see it fly again.
ReplyDeleteand who can forget Jimi Hendrix letting his freak flag fly
ReplyDeleteRemember when this blog had some credibility?
ReplyDeleteRight on 7:53
ReplyDeleteAll the a-bomb scientists told truman to not drop the bomb but to just demonstrate it. I tshould be classed as a war crime.
Spearman
Spearman, don't be a dumbass...
ReplyDeleteanon 5:00pm
ReplyDeleteI don't
"Spearman, don't be a dumbass..."
ReplyDeleteTOO LATE!
Oh boy, the classic internets atom bomb debate! Didn't think we would see that one here...
ReplyDelete"Ugh, this town is full of UND students again............"
ReplyDeleteUh oh, the cranky malcontents are coming out of the woodwork! UND is what helps make Grand Forks what it is: an energetic, vibrant place. What economic development would GF have without UND? If you don't like it, go move to a small town where the population gets grayer with each passing year.
Students are a major part of this city. I wouldn't be dissing them they bring a lot of cash to our city. Some stay here after they graduate and become a part of the community.
ReplyDeleteWhen the flag is used as a political weapon (Why isn't Obama wearing a flag pin?) it trivializes the blood and treasure sacrificed in its name.
ReplyDeletePatriotism, Christianity, whatever, doesn't come from an inanimate object. That's idolatry.
I miss the Cold War. Clear cut enemies with a strategic plan for fighting one another. In those days you knew who the enemy was.
ReplyDeleteIt sickens me that so many unpatriotic people wrap themselves in the flag for political gain while most true patriots never wear it on their sleeve. They don't have to.
ReplyDelete"and who can forget Jimi Hendrix letting his freak flag fly".
ReplyDeleteThat was Crosby, Stills and Nash that let their freak flag fly.
how about the days after 9/11 when people in the New York area were driving around with flag poles attached to their cars and SUVs. that lasted a solid two months and that was it. patriotism is done by actions and not by what you strap to your car or body! njcoyote
ReplyDeleteAnon 9:26 Obama is now wearing a flag again because it is the thing to do and he got beat up so bad for not wearing it.
ReplyDelete"Students are a major part of this city. I wouldn't be dissing them they bring a lot of cash to our city."
ReplyDeleteThey do bring some cash, depending upon how much they saved up for college or how much there parents give them. But the majority of cash the students recieve is either from the federal or state government money in the form of loans and grants, other grants, scholarships and other sources. The students only bring a smaller amount of cash.
Pelosi is Fire Marshall Bill with a wig.
ReplyDeletei think "bringing a lot of cash to the city" should not be taken literally. How much money do you suppose students spend just to fill their cars with gas? Or how much they spend in the bars and restaurants. I would guess a lot. Don't underestimate the money they spend, and who gives a rat's arse where it came from...
ReplyDeleteAs a recent UND grad, I can attest to the fact that I spend the same amount of money in Grand Forks now as I did throughout my college years. Everyone still needs to eat, a place to sleep and transportation. Not to mention, there are a ton of UND jobs that are partially funded if not fully funded by the tuition that students pay. These employees then in turn contribute to society financially. So take away the students you take away the need for many jobs.
ReplyDeleteI agree the students have a significant impact on this city. But they are only part of the equation. Where they get the money is important. Unless they come from wealthy families, most of them wouldn't be able to go to college. Most of their tuition is funded from loans, grants and scholarships. Take away these sources and they wouldn't have the money for college.
ReplyDeleteAre you downers really upset about having UND in session? Seriously.
ReplyDeleteand don't forget all the vomit thats contributed after school starts. Over the weekend, not once, but twice, people vomited behind my place of business, with at least one being remainders from a nearby bar. The quieER, cleanER summer months are over, everyone go get trashed downtown...
ReplyDeleteHow does school student vomit compare to non-school student vomit?
ReplyDeleteWhere are you getting it tested?
Is it UND or local student vomit?
Taking bets on McCain's VP choice.
ReplyDeleteTakers?
Romney
ReplyDeleteDoesn't matter. Biden will rip him apart.
ReplyDeleteJoe Leiberman it will be. McCain has to show he isn't just Bush over again.
ReplyDeleteSpearman
Which he is!
ReplyDeleteTo suggest that Bush is like McCain is silly, or a contiunation of the Bush Presidency is silly.
ReplyDeleteMcCain and Bush aren't really all that simular or that friendly. McCain isn't even a Conservative and is basically a RINO and has thumbed conservatives in the eye for years. If Bush pick Lieberman McCain will be done.
Bush and McCain don't really even like each other as well, it is pretty much documented all over the place. To suggest that they would run the government the same is way is false.
Look for McCain to throw conservatives a bone and pick a conservative.
I just want to say that I am a student at UND and I do not get a penny from the government nor my family. All of my tuition is out of my own pocket from working full time during the summer and part time during the school year.
ReplyDeleteps. I also don't go to the bars every often and when I do, I don't drink in excess.
Maybe I am one of the exceptions to the equation, but please don't generalize. We are not all money suckers from the government and drunks.
Obama is taking it all the way. No Questions.
ReplyDeleteWho cares where the students get their money. They are spending it here and that is what counts.If they are getting grants, loans or whatever, good foor them for going after it and the students are all very welcome as far as I am concerned.
ReplyDeleteRe: Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteObama is taking it all the way. No Questions.
11:15 PM, August 28, 2008
He still needs to be elected.
I was at the Obama event last night with great seats, straight out in front of the podium. My impressions in one word?
ReplyDelete"Stale"
Silly principles rehashed from a bygone era.
It was culturally significant (I guess) and especially for Americans of color and minorities.
However, again, stale rehash of silly Dem principles from an era long ago.
"I was at the Obama event last night with great seats, straight out in front of the podium."
ReplyDeleteBoola boola. Most of the country had the same seats: right in front of their tv screen.
Difference is, we were encouraged that the speech contained more of "us" than "I."
It was a good speech, and the only hope we have left.
O c'mon, watching it on TV was the same as being there, you must be kidding.
ReplyDeleteI understand you liked the words. You should probably take some time to understand the policies and meaning of Obama's policies, I'm just sayin'. ;-)
Given what it took to get in and out of the stadium, I would have almost rather watched it at home...Nah!!!!
Back to the "Hope" on this blog.
The hope for an Olive Garden!
Palin is a good choice on McCain's part.
ReplyDelete@5:15
ReplyDeleteI'm just saying that with more students in town, the amount of vomit has increased
Anonymous 1258 I think you're right, if you like Marxism Obama is a great candidate.
ReplyDeleteGreat weekend for kayaking. We did 6 hours on Lake Bemidgi Sat, 6 hours on Lake Itasca on Sun, and will be on the Red River Mon.
ReplyDelete